The origins of men's work with Bill Kauth
The co-founder of the ManKind project talks early ER visits and the core spirit of men's work.
I credit the ManKind Project (MKP) with launching the modern men’s group movement and reviving rites of passage ceremonies. MKP remains one of the largest men’s groups in the world and has trained the leadership of countless other men’s groups. Bill Kauth co-founded the ManKind Project in 1984, and it remains the backbone of the men’s work movement today. I interviewed Bill about the origins of men’s work processes, why men’s groups have grown and women/co-ed groups haven’t, and Bill’s advice to young men entering “the work.”
Inspiration for the first retreat
Johnny: The ManKind Project wrote the book on men’s work facilitation, and when I first witnessed it, it felt like magic. How did you create it? What sources of emotional work did you bring into the mix?
Bill: That's a question I happen to know very intimately. So 40 years ago when this thing started, Ron Herring, my fellow founder, and I were in the Milwaukee Gestalt Training Group. Gestalt was a new therapeutic model that was coming into prominence at that time, as was bioenergetics and a few others. We knew and practiced these cutting-edge processes.
It was actually one of those new emotion opening trainings that David and Patricia Durovy had brought into town. It was what we call “guts” but is ran all day and all night for a weekend. Ron and Rich and I actually participated in several of those events. We got to know emotional opening processes really well, so that when we created the training, we built that in as the essential core. Rich Tosi added the fierce masculine context for the training from his years in the US Marine Corps. Together we created a well-balanced training offering men both the fierce and tender.
Safety, trauma, and cathartic release
Johnny: What did the training and facilitation work look in the very beginning?
Bill: It was crude and rude and maybe even dangerous. Oh, my God.
Johnny: Well, now I'm really intrigued.
Bill: Oh, it was such a wild experiment. Honestly, those first couple of years, I went to the ER every other training. We’d designed it for men to be fierce with some challenging games, so we had broken bones, stitches or a tooth knocked out. Oh, jeez, seriously, the training was pretty dangerous when we first started it. But every time we’d tweak it and build in a whole new safety protocol so nobody'd get hurt again in that way.
It's become profoundly more safe now than it was originally, and it’s very rare now for anyone to get hurt. We’ve even taken a lot of care around trauma. As trauma emerged as a cultural concern we picked up on it immediately and brought that awareness in as another safety vehicle.
Johnny: What was the emotional core of the training?
Bill: As I suggested earlier, we knew from years of observing that emotional opening for men was crucial, so were looking for cathartic release. Sometimes, early on, we pushed a little too hard, but learned and developed new creative ways to get the same results. There was always an enormous amount of joy. As you know from having done the training, when a man pops through emotionally and suddenly finds his heart, there's that profound moment of joy that everybody can feel. You may also recall that in that open-hearted joy that each man gets to anchor his own transpersonal life mission that he’s carefully prepared ahead of time.
How it’s evolved
Johnny: Are there any aspects that you want to see change in how men's work is performed in order to reflect needs that you see today?
Bill: Some of our protocols are 40 years old. One of the powerful training models during those early days was EST, Warner-Erhard's creation. We used similar techniques like the accountability process. But that's gotten tweaked over the years. The old model that we used was pretty crude, and we'd have to force it and try to get you for something you didn't do.
But the sophistication of the young men (our sons and grandsons) coming in now is just stunning. I went to a training a couple years ago and the leader said “Hey, here's what accountability is (and would then teach them). Anybody got any issues?” And six guys stood right up and were ready to work. New processes keep emerging just to meet the demand of the younger, more sophisticated men.
Co-ed and women’s groups
Johnny: I'm curious why co-ed groups and women's groups have just not taken off in the same way as men’s group?
Bill: The obvious answer is that we need more separate gender work before we can come together . When we open up with just men we experience that special joy. I remember that joy when I first got in my men's group. Like, “holy shit, this is amazing. I'm actually with men that I can share my heart with and talk straight with. This feels so good.” This was back in the late '70s, and I didn't walk home from men's group. I floated home, and my wife received me with all this joy. So that was my first experience of a men's group way, way back when.
I suppose that even after 40 years there's not still enough authentic challenges for men to find their hearts. We talked about that earlier, our grandkids, that new generation, they've got a lot of gifts from us, but apparently, there still just isn't enough deep men’s work.
Johnny: And what do you think it looks like when co-ed groups do succeed?
Bill: Honestly, the little success I’ve seen suggests that a high level of toleration is imperative. I built a group that was equally balanced between men and women. It’s met every single week for eight years and it's still together. What I see from the outside is a level of tolerance. There's some people that like each other as friends, but there's others who don't like each other much. But they stay together because “it's my community.” At that level, groups that hang together are like family. There's always crazy aunt Marian, and we all know she's nuts, and there’s also uncle Frank, he's a weird dude, but what the heck, he's family. So we put up with each other at Christmas and Thanksgiving. [laughs] I hate to say it, but that's the best I've seen.
Advice for young men
Johnny: When you started this out, there was a lot of experimentation, some of which was dangerous. Now things are more safe. But what about that spirit of the early days? What would you want the young men doing men's work now to know about?
Bill: The spirit of the early days of MKP still very much exists in the joy catalyzed by the work. The New Warrior training was designed to pop men’s hearts open. Each man’s inner expansion of being is pure joy. It’s been 40 years now and it has spread literally all over the world, into 27 countries almost entirely by word of mouth – one man trusting another. The process seems to work in a variety of languages and leadership. It still brings men into joy and that is the original spirit with which we began.
I would say to young men to actually do some men’s work to grow that special part of themselves. And be discerning in choosing training possibilities that will take you into the joy of authentic growth and discovery.
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Good stuff, Johnny. I was curious about the gestalt as I’ve studied Perls a bit and have interest in refining my knowledge and use of gestalt as well as its use at Esalen with Perls since the 1960s. What role does it play in MKP?
Curious if you’ve done any research on other men’s groups that do “the work”?
Thanks